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Wikipedia>Lowercase sigmabot III: Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:United Kingdom/Archive 38) (bot

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Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:United Kingdom/Archive 38) (bot

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{{British English|date=September 2010}}
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== Conversion in total area ==

Hello, I am Cleter, and I would like to begin by stating that the conversion of the land area in the UK reads as follows:

{{tq|The total area of the United Kingdom is 94,060 square miles (243,610 km2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.}}

I suggest the following change in accordance to [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Unit_choice_and_order]] which includes:
* In '''non-scientific articles with strong ties to the United Kingdom''', the primary units for most quantities are metric or other internationally used units, except that:
** UK engineering-related articles, including those on bridges and tunnels, generally use the system of units in which the subject project was [[Engineering drawing|drawn up]] (but road distances are given in imperial units, with a metric conversion – see next bullet);
** the primary units for distance/length, speed and fuel consumption are [[Statute mile|miles]], miles per hour, and miles per imperial gallon (except for short distances or lengths, where miles are too large for practical use);
** the primary units for personal height and weight are feet/inches and stones/pounds;
** imperial pints are used for quantities of draught beer/cider and bottled milk;

As you can see, none of these circumstances are applicable to the article. Therefore, I request that the sentence in green be readjusted to this (including the 2 sources):

{{tq|The total area of the United Kingdom is 243,610 square kilometres (94,060 mi2), with an estimated 2022 population of nearly 67 million people.}} [[User:Cleter|🅲🅻🅴🆃🅴🆁]] ([[User talk:Cleter|a word]]) 03:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

:Given area is a function of distances, I don't think the use of square miles is out of line with that MoS even if not specifically mentioned. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 10:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
::One difficulty is that all ONS statistics (along with the OS, the only genuine authority on area measurements in the UK) are metric, both for Standard Area Measurements and density. You're absolutely right of course—the MoS means that the figure should be imperial first. But nonetheless, it always feels to me a little dishonest that Wikipedia presents British area measurements as though the statistic is imperial and that Wiki is converting it to metric. When in fact the opposite is true. [[User:Dgp4004|Dgp4004]] ([[User talk:Dgp4004|talk]]) 12:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Cleter|Cleter]]: I agree with @[[User:Chipmunkdavis|Chipmunkdavis]]. I've lived in the country for some time. We're used to square metres and hectares for small measurements, but larger areas are mostly spoken of in square miles (or [[List of unusual units of measurement#Other countries|Isle of Wights]] or [[List of unusual units of measurement#Wales|Wales]]). I suspect this is because road distances, which are a practical yardstick for envisaging a large area, are stated in miles. [[User:Bazza 7|Bazza]] ([[User talk:Bazza 7|talk]]) 10:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

== @117PXL ==

{{ping|117PXL}} You seem to misunderstand "bias" and "neutrality" as it operates on Wikipedia. Please read [[WP:BRD]], self-revert and discuss your edit here. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 12:19, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
:{{ping|117PXL}} when you come off your block, put forward your arguments here. If you revert again without getting consensus support first you will just get a longer block. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 23:43, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
::Apologies, I didn’t realise I would need a consensus for removing the image because I thought the bias was obvious. I will explain my thoughts…
::In Northern Ireland the pro Irish community speak Irish (Ulster-Irish) and the pro British community speak Ulster-Scots, as well as speaking English.
::There are signs in Northern Ireland that are translated into both languages, here are some examples I found:
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Multilingual_sign_Department_Culture_Leisure_Arts_Northern_Ireland.jpg
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Derry_Guildhall_Nameplate_2013_09_17.jpg
::
::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Looking_for_the_%22Cludgies%22%5E_-_geograph.org.uk_-_637820.jpg
::As you can see the ‘Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure’ is translated into both languages.
::These examples show no bias, but do highlight division, so I thought it would be wiser to remove the image, as leaving it, could annoy the pro British community.
::All thoughts are welcome. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:26, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks. First of all whether it would "annoy the pro British community" is irrelevant and not a factor that would or could be taken into account on Wikipedia. See [[WP:NOTCENSORED]]. I think that sort of thinking has led you to misunderstand [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]] here. It's not about "balancing" conflicts - see [[WP:FALSEBALANCE]] which is not exactly on point here but is related. I don't see any "bias" in the pic you wanted to remove for a number of reasons. Ultimately it's just an instance of a multilingual sign in the UK. That's all. Having said that, the pics that you have linked to are an even better illustrations. I wouldn't have a problem with any of those. The other problem with your edit was cluttering of the Topography section with 4 pics. It's not 'bias' just to have pics from 2 countries - unnecessary clutter is a much more significant issue. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 22:34, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
::::{{ping|117PXL}} I see you went ahead with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Kingdom&diff=1206651743&oldid=1206630955 this edit], which constitutes another revert. The above was just ''my'' opinion - I wouldn't say that is a new consensus particularly as another editor reverted you too. You've just come off a block for edit-warring the removal of the pic. Whilst the edit is ok with me, you run the risk of being re-blocked. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 20:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::The text on [[:File:Derry Guildhall Nameplate 2013 09 17.jpg]] is much harder to see in thumbnail view than that on [[:File:Bilingual welcome sign Newry.jpg]], so I disagree with 117PXL's replacement of the latter with the former (which I see has now been reverted). [[User:Cordless Larry|Cordless Larry]] ([[User talk:Cordless Larry|talk]]) 20:35, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::Sorry didn't see the latest comment. But I don't think we should have the previous photo on there. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::I understand the Wikipedia rules and I understand the image doesn't look as attractive from affar. But this is the main UK page and there are two communities in Northern Ireland that have to work together. There is a Welsh image if the contrast is the issue...
::::::https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Welcome_sign_Llandrindod.jpg [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:22, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::Is everyone happy with the Welsh one? [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 21:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::I thought there was no objections to a welsh image and the long place name looked good on there? [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 23:24, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::I think there are too many pro republic editors on here such as the last Canadian one. [[User:117PXL|117PXL]] ([[User talk:117PXL|talk]]) 23:26, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::::You'd be better serve trying to get consensus for you changes rather than casting aspersions.-- [[User:Ponyo|'''Ponyo''']][[User talk:Ponyo|''bons mots'']] 23:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|117PXL}} What does my being a republican & a Canadian, have to do with the disputed topic? [[User:GoodDay|GoodDay]] ([[User talk:GoodDay|talk]]) 01:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
::::::::It's at [[WP:AN3]] plus [[WP:PA]]. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 01:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 February 2024 ==

{{edit extended-protected|United Kingdom|answered=yes}}
update first minster post for northern irealand [[User:Saltcoats123|Saltcoats123]] ([[User talk:Saltcoats123|talk]]) 15:01, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

:@[[User:Saltcoats123|Saltcoats123]]: What do you want changed? Read the instructions in the template which you inserted: {{quote|"Please change X" is '''not acceptable''' and will be rejected; the request '''must''' be of the form "please change X to Y".}} Bazza 7 ([[User_talk:Bazza_7|talk]]) 15:44, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 25 February 2024 ==

{{Edit extended-protected|United Kingdom|answered=yes}}
Under "History - Postwar 20th Century" it is stated that the UK was a founding member of today's EU. It was not. The UK was not a signatory of the Treaty of Rome and therefore not a founding member of the EEC (present-day EU). In fact, its request to join the bloc was vetoed by France, twice. Please correct this mistake. [[User:Pandrej01|Pandrej01]] ([[User talk:Pandrej01|talk]]) 22:22, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit extended-protected}} template. It doesn't say it was founding member of the [[EEC]] which came into being in 1957. It says it was a founding member of the [[European Union]] which was a different entity (albeit a successor) that came into being in 1993 and which the UK was a founding member. It doesn't seem to be incorrect. [[User:DeCausa|DeCausa]] ([[User talk:DeCausa|talk]]) 22:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

== Rare Book ==

The Orchard Pavilion by Arthur Christopher Benson.1914 1st edition. Leather bound and Gold embossed. Printed by Ballantyne,Hanson &Co. Edinburgh. [[User:Darlene Mumford|Darlene Mumford]] ([[User talk:Darlene Mumford|talk]]) 22:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Talk:United Kingdom - Revision history

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Wikipedia>Lowercase sigmabot III: Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:United Kingdom/Archive 38) (bot